Fresh Beginnings

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Transcribed Interview with Mark and Tim

Here is the interview of Singapore’ National Divers, twins Mark and Timothy Lee share their journey and experiences.

Introduction

Here is the interview of Singapore’ National Divers, twins Mark and Timothy Lee share their journey and experiences.

Charles

How about we start by giving you both a moment to introduce yourselves to the audience.

(For anyone watching this on video, I’ll point to myself, so you know who’s speaking.) I’m Timothy, 29 years old this year and I’m Mark’s ‘older’ twin brother. I currently work as an engineer in the public sector, having completed my engineering degree at NUS (National University of Singapore), and I was also on Singapore’s national diving team for 12 years.

Tim

Mark

Hi everyone, Mark here. I’m Tim’s ‘younger’ twin brother. I was also a part of the national diving team with my brother for about 10 years. After retiring from the sport, I made my move into the tech space, and I currently do channel sales for a tech company.

So, when you say you’re younger and older, how big of an age difference are we talking about.

Charles

Tim

Just about 2 minutes, but I have to claim that seniority whenever I can.

Early Childhood Days / Gymnasium

Maybe I can just add a bit more background for the both of us. We grew up very active at home, almost hyperactive, to the point where our parents decided to just throw us into sports so we could use up our energy before coming home. Growing up, we did everything from soccer, basketball, track and field and gymnastics, which was a big one for us. We did a lot of sports in primary school, but it was during that period where we started to take gymnastics seriously. So, for all our primary school years, we were part of the schools gymnastics team, and that carried forward into secondary school. It was a bit more than halfway through secondary school when we went for our first intro to diving trial-Gymnasium led way to diving sport

Mark

Tim

You have to say it properly. During this time in secondary school, our dad actually read in a newspaper article that they were looking for divers to train for the youth Olympic games in 2010. It was 2009 when he saw this article, which said they were looking for gymnasts to participate in the trials. He asked us to go for it but we were pretty hesitant at first because we were uncomfortable with the idea of wearing trunks in front of so many people. As you can imagine, as 15-year-old boys we were self-conscious. Our dad, being our dad, put his foot done and urged us to try, so he dragged us to the pool, and the rest is history. When I landed in the water for the first time, I felt that this was the sport for me. We both tried out together, but Mark joined me on the team a couple of years later. Formative years.

You talked about your hyperactive phase when you were kids. Can you tell us a little more about that? What were some of your memories of that time in your lives? Do you remember getting in trouble for it or was it more of a harmless hyperactivity?

Charles

Tim

Honestly, I can’t imagine how our mom survived with two kids like us. We were two extremely playful kids, but also a ruckus.

I don’t think we did anything wrong during that time, just that we were extremely playful as Tim mentioned. To give you an example, when we did gymnastics, we were so active that we would also get scolded for not being able to stay still. A common punishment in gymnastics is maintaining a handstand until the coach is satisfied. Even while doing our handstands, we would still kick each other on the wall. Looking back, it’s quite crazy to think about the amount of energy we had back then.

Mark

Charles

That’s amazing. What about any other memories of your formative years? Is there anything else that stood out to either of you?

I think going back to how we transited to the sport of diving, I would say we are where we are today because of our dad and his character of making us try new things. That translated to us always being open to try new things even within the same sport. When we were young, he would take us rock-climbing, and there were times where he wouldn’t let us come down unless we gave our 200% to succeed.

Tim

Out of comfort zone

Charles

It’s clear to see that getting out of your comfort zone was pushed from a very young age thanks to your dad. This is great time to pivot to how you both pursued this journey to excellence. I think it’s safe to say that the way you both lived your lives from the time you were 15 to about 25 was very different to the average person, like outliers. Your pursuit to be elite athletes clearly took you places very few people go. Why don’t you take us through this journey and what it took for you to do this. It obviously isn’t something that could happen overnight.

So, I think it always starts with enjoying the sport first. I coach kids, and I tell them the same thing, because I think that’s what will keep you in the sport for a long time. Especially in our early years, that was the primary focus. Before becoming elite in the sport, it was about how we could enjoy the sport at every stage. Over time, we experienced a mental shift in what we enjoyed about the sport. For me, I got satisfaction from doing a good dive, and figuring out how I could make it better. In terms of what it took to get there, it was a lot of training. Normally 6 days a week, and we often had double training sessions on a single day. During school holidays, we had double training for a combined total of 7 hours a day, 6 days a week.

Tim

Mark

Just to add to what Tim mentioned, I think it would be interesting to talk about a day-in-the-life for us during that time. We would usually wake up at around 5 for our morning training that started at 6. This was usually some sort of weight training or dry-dive training, which is when we do our different dives but on mats instead of in the pool. There was a lot of trampoline work as well. We usually wouldn’t hit the water in the morning. This usually lasted a couple of hours, and we would head to school right after. After school, we headed for our afternoon session at 4, which usually went on all the way until 8. By the time we finish our session and get home, it’s about 9 when we have dinner. The number of training hours was one thing, but something else we realized was that if we wanted to pursue this, we would have to sacrifice almost all our free time. One thing that hit me the most was not being able to spend time with friends the way I used to in the past. Over time, the texts asking us to go out started to reduce, not because they don’t want you to come out, but because they knew we had to stick to our schedule. It was a tough realization at the time, but for me, my goal for diving was to see how far I could push myself in the sport.

Lifestyle choices to make

Charles

You made a great point when you said those texts messages started to reduce and eventually stop. This must have been big at the time because in your late teens, your friends and the time you spent with them are some of the most memorable times you have. We can talk about how you coped with that at the time, but before that, I wanted to ask if there was anything else you had to give up at the time? Were there more things you had to prioritize at that time?

I think for those pockets of time, our health was of utmost importance to us. Our diet and sleep were something we took very seriously. We were quite lean to begin with, but our diet was probably monitored the most. At the time, our coach wanted us to cut weight, so we worked with a nutritionist who came up with a plan for us. Every day was the same to the point where even today, I have the same breakfast every morning which is just oats, blueberries, yoghurt, milk and peanut butter. All our meals consisted of lean proteins, sugarless sauces and a lot of veggies. At night we weren’t allowed to have carbs so it was just the protein and vegetables for dinner.

Tim

Charles

And I’m guessing there was never any ice cream then?

Ice cream would only be on the weekends. We would have one or two either on Sunday or Saturday nights. Even the drinks we had were always unsweetened with no sugar!

Tim

Being in that One percenter

Charles

It’s interesting because this lifestyle that you guys led for so many years is something that grown people who have had years of experience still struggle with. As teenagers, what did it take for you to commit to such a rigorous lifestyle. I’m sure you guys would have had times where you struggled, so how were you able to bounce back?

I think one skill that we both picked up from diving is the importance of goal setting. It’s something we learnt very early on from a sports psychologist we used to work with. Based on the goals we set, we would establish the steps we would take to achieve those goals. I remember seeing a slide at a nutrition seminar which said, “to be a champion you have to eat like a champion”. That’s what made me realize that if I’m not doing what I need to be doing, someone else is. If I wanted to put myself in the best possible position to be a champion, I had to do whatever it takes. So, goal setting was huge because I knew that everything, I did pushed me one step closer towards my goal.

Mark

Tim

I remember one coach told us that these are the things that ‘1 percenter’s do. It’s what will set you apart from other people, and why it’s so important be conscious of these small things that contribute to the high performance that you need.

One of the odder things I would do is carry my pillow with me whenever we travelled. Sleep is important for everyone, but as athletes, we need to take it one step further to always be in prime condition. I remember reading a book about a professional cyclist who would carry his pillow around with him and I decided to adopt that practice in the last few years of my diving career.

Mark

Tim

I think above all, the thing that always helped us keep focus is knowing our why. Whenever you feel lost, you just need to go back to why you’re doing what you’re doing. Did we love always waking up early in the morning and training for hours every day? Not really. But amid the pain and suffering, we always reminded ourselves of why we were doing it and where we wanted to go, and that seemed to always help us. I think this can apply to everyone in any field, because life will always present struggles. What’s important is how you overcome them.

Sweet Memories in our Journey

Amazing. So we’ve talked about how you both have had to deal with and overcome a lot of hardship during your professional years. Why don’t we talk about some of your achievements during this time. You both have competed in many international competitions like the SEA games (Southeast-Asian games) and the World Champs. Tell us about some of your sweetest moments where you saw the fruit of your labor. For each of you, was there any one moment where you felt you were at your peak as professional athletes?

Charles

Mark

One of my most memorable competitions has to be the World Championships in Shanghai in 2014, because that’s when Tim and I finished 10th in the world. When we used to compete, people didn’t know a lot about Singapore, they thought it was a part of China! So it was really great to be able to represent the country and be ranked so high.

However, I think our first breakthrough for the both of us was the 2013 SEA games. It was our first major regional competition. I remember going in with no real expectations because it was our first time at such a high level, but we were still able to walk away with a few medals which showed us that all our hard work and training was paying off. That gave us the confidence to be more ambitious and strive for even bigger competitions moving forward.

Mark

Competitive by nature

Charles

You both would have been quite young at the 2013 SEA games, competing against older and more seasoned divers like the Malaysians or Indonesians. What was it like going up against competitors who were at the Olympic level?

It honestly comes down to us being very competitive in nature. We saw it as an opportunity to learn from the best of the best, and how we could close to gap to them. You could tell they were sort of uneasy when they saw us diving against them. It was encouraging to see them go from being very comfortable in their competitions to seeing us as competition.

Mark

Charles

Synchronous all the way

It’s clear that you are both competitive in nature. I’m sure there are days where one of you aren’t at your best, and when you dive in the synchronized category, that would definitely pull the other down. How did you guys deal with these situations? Did you end up butting heads a lot?

To be honest, I can’t recall any instance where we got upset at each other during competitions. However, it was a different story when at times during training. For instance, in synchronized diving, our rhythms need to match. Being twins helps a lot with this, but some days it’s out. One those days, one of us has to compensate, and that would throw us off our own rhythm, which would cause us to butt heads. I couldn’t count the number of times this has happened to us during training.

Tim

Mark

Just to add some flavor to that. As close as we were growing up, we did have a period in our lives where we fought a lot. It was to the point where we were even fist-fighting at home. Before we started diving, I wouldn’t say we were super close. I think it was because of conflicts and things like wanting our own group of friends. It was actually diving that helped mend the relationship, because we had to learn how to train and compete as one. We spent so much time together, during training and competitions, which naturally made us closer. We have definitely come out of the entire experience as best friends. I never expected this as an outcome of diving, but I’m always thankful for it.

Expect the unexpected, a pivotal change

Charles

I’m glad you brought that up. This entire journey was never only about physical excellence, but also in other aspects like mental and emotional strength. Clearly, you had to work towards strengthening yourselves mentally and emotionally as well. Can you tell us more about this experience and how it was for the both of you?

I think a key moment for me on this journey was right after the World Championships in 2014. We had finished 10th in the world and were on a high, with big dreams going forward. At the time we were training for the Asian Games later that year. The day before we flew to China for the training camp was supposed to be a light session.

Mark

While I was doing a routine dive on the board, I veered a bit too far to one side and tripped off the side while jumping, and the board swung up to split my leg open. When I fell into the water, I thought I had just sprained my ankle, so I made my way out of the pool, and that’s when I saw how big the cut actually was. In that moment, all I could think about was the fact that I wouldn’t be able to make it for the Asian Games. We rushed to the hospital and the first thing I asked the doctor was whether or not I’d be able to make it for the games, I didn’t care about anything else. It was the moment he said no that the tears started pouring out. It wasn’t just a few weeks of training, but months of hard work that were building us up for these games, and one small incident changed all of that.

However, it was from this experience that I learned a lot with the help of a sports psychologist who offered a lot of her time to me. That’s when I learned the importance of goal setting, to visualize where I would be one week at a time. Although it was a painful lesson, it taught me to trust the process and take the little victories along the way. In fact, in trusting the process, I was able to recover and compete in the SEA games the next year, where we won the silver medal.

Mark

Charles

And those are always the toughest moments, aren’t they? When your world gets turned upside down in a second. Thanks for sharing that with us. What about you Tim? Were there any moments where you went through something similar?

For too many actually! But if I was to pick one, it would be a more recent incident. We were in the Gold Coast, Australia. It was actually our last day of training there, and I was doing a flip into a sponge pit like as we often do. Unfortunately, the pit was too shallow, and when I landed, I felt something snap in my ankle. When I looked at my ankle and saw my tendon jumping over my bone, I knew something was wrong. Although I was lucky not to tear my tendon, it had come loose and didn’t allow me to jump properly. I tried to do rehab without surgery, but that route didn’t work, and I had to do a surgery, missing the Commonwealth games that year.

Tim

I did whatever I could to rush my recovery, and was able to compete in the Asian games, but because I didn’t give myself enough time, I started to feel pain on the knee of my other leg. As the pain persisted, I went to see a doctor. Just like Mark, my first question was how soon I could get back to training. The doctor told me that my condition went beyond diving and was something that could affect me for the rest of my life. For the first time, the reality that my diving career could end hit me, and this was something I never expected because of how invested I was in the sport.

As I trained and did my rehab the next year in preparation for the Olympic games, I think God was preparing me, showing me that there is more to life than diving. This experience helped me so much because I was able to cope with the disappointment of not qualifying for the Olympics so much better. I was better equipped to deal with such a pivotal moment in my life.

Tim

Dealing with changes

Charles

You both have talked about these pivotal moments in your lives, moments where you found yourselves, as I call it, in a crushing place. A place where you feel like life is pressing on you. I just want to revisit those moments so we can dissect them a little more. How did you guys cope with such circumstances? Could you tell us a little more about how it felt dealing with that pressing place in life?

Mark

Struggle is something we all go through, and what’s more important is how you get out of it. This goes back to what I mentioned before of those incremental wins that come about by goal setting. Consciously trying to take a step in the right direction every day is the best thing I learned to do.

Now there are called pivotal moments because you both made big changes to what you did in your individual lives after diving. One might even say you both had fresh beginnings in your lives. Take us through how you were able to visualize these new horizons and have them take form in your new careers and even personal lives.

Charles

Tim

I think what helped Mark and I was firstly having a clear end in mind. We wanted to qualify for the Olympics, and the FINA World Championships in 2021 was our last opportunity to do so. We gave it everything we had, but we also knew that if we didn’t qualify, that it was time to move on.

I think it also helped us just knowing that we spent the last 10 years at an elite level in sport. We developed in so many ways and picked up skills that are applicable in all areas of life. It also helped shape what I wanted to do later. I appreciated working as a part of a team rather than being solo.

Mark

Tim

Yeah, what Mark said about the skills we learnt being applicable outside it absolutely right. In my work there have been times where I’ve been faced with big tasks that seemed daunting at the time, but through my training I learned to trust the process and appreciate the incremental successes that brought me to where I am. This really helped me tackle situations which I may have otherwise struggled with.

Knowing the ‘Why’ aspect

That’s amazing. I think you both have mentioned some extremely important points that demonstrate how it is possible to bounce back from a difficult place in life and reach new heights that you could have never imagined were possible at one point. Is there anything you both would like to say to close this talk we’ve had?

Charles

Mark

I can imagine that the people reading this come from all walks of life. So, I want to remind everyone that it doesn’t matter what you do and where you come from, no matter what you do always remember your why. Whenever you feel lost, remind yourself why you’re doing what you’re doing. Life is beautiful, so enjoy the process, and always remember your why.

From me, I would say always believe in yourself. As someone who has struggled with this at times, I’ve learnt that believing in your capabilities will always help. When the task seems unconquerable, trust in what you can do and take that first step. No matter what you do, give your everything. If you don’t meet your intended objective, you can always look back on the experience and learn something for the next task you have to do.

Tim

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